Very interesting to see Odisha standing out very negatively on the first two parameters. Culturally and anecdotally though, the difference with Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand and South Bengal could not be that different since though these are geographically different states, it forms a cultural unity in terms of social practices.
it is so fascinating that South India cross-tabs in the Pew Survey of India are more liberal on Caste, Hinduism, and religious questions than the college educated, <35 or Urban category.
Plus, I presume the former category composes much of the latter categories, ,so I'd be curious for the non-south crosstabs...
The author seems to have no idea what she is writing. This post is filled with misinformation s. You should remove "north " because Himalayan states in north are far less conservative than south and they falls in indo Aryan category . You claimed aryans are more conservative. That debunks it.
Both Jainism, buddhism are north Indian religion and were created in heart of Bihar. According to you south kings supported Jainism ? Buddhism ? Ashoka one of the greatest kings in Indian history from Bihar spreaded buddhism from tibet to sri lanka . From afganistan to mynamar . It will take me whole day to point out misinformation in this post.
Lower caste women in South India weren't allowed to cover there breast until 19th century by upper caste south Indians
south India is just as patriarchal central India .
Majority of marriages in South are arranged marriage and they even have uncle niece wedding . South is richer than central India that's why they are better on these types of stats than central India .
Only himalyan states(Himachal uttarakhand ) and North eastern Indian are least conservative .
I am from uttarakhand and majority of marriages are love marriages and rest are arranged marriages where parents setup date for their girl. If their girl liked the boy and vice versa then wedding talks happens .
Most of the teenagers in uttarakhand have relationship .
In north east india it is also same. You should go to uttarakhand and North East. I would say North eastern (excluding Assam) and then uttarakhand Himachal are least conservative in India .
I wouldnt blame you because you aren't Indian. Because several things aren't matching the timeline , ancestry, religion like you claimed south king patronized jain buddhism and North Indians kings didn't. That doesn't even make any sense . How can you go so wrong
Thank you. If you look at the title, maps, genetic data and language, I’m referring to “north central” India - not the Himalayas or North East. “North central” is short hand for Rajasthan, Punjab, Haryana, UP and Bihar. The data shows arranged marriage is much much lower in the south. As I wrote, tribal populations are different. And yes, southern India was casteism but there have been successful movements of resistance. Good point in Bihar, I’ll investigate which populations sponsored Buddhism.
Southern women from kerala didn’t cover breasts in general. It's only after the introduction of Victorian morality that not covering breasts was seen as something disgraceful and immoral.
As manu pillai points out kerala women didn’t cover their tops regardless of caste and the whole fiction of breast tax has no historical evidence and was fabricated during the British raj.
Wonderful post! Really interesting to see the synthesis between what the genetic studies have been showing and your cultural observations.
Not a major issue, but I think there may be an error in the Pew table. It lists Men and Women in both rows and columns, and I don't know how one might interpret a 2 x 2 Men/Women table.
I’ve really enjoyed reading your posts since finding your work, and I think a conversation with you and Razib Khan would be really interesting! Until then, looking forward to reading more of your work. It seems like a nice companion to this piece would be a look at some of Marija Gimbutas theories about Old Europe and the steppe invasions as well
Thank you so much. Honestly, I think it's hard to know if Gimbutas was right. All we have are small female figures, indicating reverence for fertility. I don't think we can say more than this. I don't think it's sufficient evidence for 'matriarchy'. But I will certainly say that Indo-Europeans/Aryans made things more patriarchal.
As for Razib, he knows a thousand times more than me on genetics. I'm trying to read to catch up!
Yes, I tend to agree about Gimbutas. She is certainly an important scholar regardless, but DNA and stable isotope analysis seems to have refuted a lot of her claims at this point, insofar as Old Europe being matrilineal/matrilocal at least.
Very interesting post Alice, if you were to discuss these issues with Razib Khan on a podcast it could make for a great conversation.
Very interesting to see Odisha standing out very negatively on the first two parameters. Culturally and anecdotally though, the difference with Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand and South Bengal could not be that different since though these are geographically different states, it forms a cultural unity in terms of social practices.
it is so fascinating that South India cross-tabs in the Pew Survey of India are more liberal on Caste, Hinduism, and religious questions than the college educated, <35 or Urban category.
Plus, I presume the former category composes much of the latter categories, ,so I'd be curious for the non-south crosstabs...
The author seems to have no idea what she is writing. This post is filled with misinformation s. You should remove "north " because Himalayan states in north are far less conservative than south and they falls in indo Aryan category . You claimed aryans are more conservative. That debunks it.
Both Jainism, buddhism are north Indian religion and were created in heart of Bihar. According to you south kings supported Jainism ? Buddhism ? Ashoka one of the greatest kings in Indian history from Bihar spreaded buddhism from tibet to sri lanka . From afganistan to mynamar . It will take me whole day to point out misinformation in this post.
Lower caste women in South India weren't allowed to cover there breast until 19th century by upper caste south Indians
south India is just as patriarchal central India .
Majority of marriages in South are arranged marriage and they even have uncle niece wedding . South is richer than central India that's why they are better on these types of stats than central India .
Only himalyan states(Himachal uttarakhand ) and North eastern Indian are least conservative .
I am from uttarakhand and majority of marriages are love marriages and rest are arranged marriages where parents setup date for their girl. If their girl liked the boy and vice versa then wedding talks happens .
Most of the teenagers in uttarakhand have relationship .
In north east india it is also same. You should go to uttarakhand and North East. I would say North eastern (excluding Assam) and then uttarakhand Himachal are least conservative in India .
I wouldnt blame you because you aren't Indian. Because several things aren't matching the timeline , ancestry, religion like you claimed south king patronized jain buddhism and North Indians kings didn't. That doesn't even make any sense . How can you go so wrong
Thank you. If you look at the title, maps, genetic data and language, I’m referring to “north central” India - not the Himalayas or North East. “North central” is short hand for Rajasthan, Punjab, Haryana, UP and Bihar. The data shows arranged marriage is much much lower in the south. As I wrote, tribal populations are different. And yes, southern India was casteism but there have been successful movements of resistance. Good point in Bihar, I’ll investigate which populations sponsored Buddhism.
https://manuspillai.com/woman-breasts/
Southern women from kerala didn’t cover breasts in general. It's only after the introduction of Victorian morality that not covering breasts was seen as something disgraceful and immoral.
"Lower caste women in South India weren't allowed to cover there breast until 19th century by upper caste south Indians"
Sorry but this is fake.
https://manuspillai.com/woman-breasts/
As manu pillai points out kerala women didn’t cover their tops regardless of caste and the whole fiction of breast tax has no historical evidence and was fabricated during the British raj.
Wonderful post! Really interesting to see the synthesis between what the genetic studies have been showing and your cultural observations.
Not a major issue, but I think there may be an error in the Pew table. It lists Men and Women in both rows and columns, and I don't know how one might interpret a 2 x 2 Men/Women table.
I’ve really enjoyed reading your posts since finding your work, and I think a conversation with you and Razib Khan would be really interesting! Until then, looking forward to reading more of your work. It seems like a nice companion to this piece would be a look at some of Marija Gimbutas theories about Old Europe and the steppe invasions as well
Thank you so much. Honestly, I think it's hard to know if Gimbutas was right. All we have are small female figures, indicating reverence for fertility. I don't think we can say more than this. I don't think it's sufficient evidence for 'matriarchy'. But I will certainly say that Indo-Europeans/Aryans made things more patriarchal.
As for Razib, he knows a thousand times more than me on genetics. I'm trying to read to catch up!
Yes, I tend to agree about Gimbutas. She is certainly an important scholar regardless, but DNA and stable isotope analysis seems to have refuted a lot of her claims at this point, insofar as Old Europe being matrilineal/matrilocal at least.