The notion that economic growth will lead to the liberalization of Muslim communities has not materialized as some might have expected. You mentioned how British Muslims traditionally married within their extended kin network or with individuals from their country of origin, and later began marrying other Muslims. While this shift might appear to be a form of cultural liberalization on the surface, it may not be the case. Instead, it could reflect the increasing influence of Islamist ideology, which differs from cultural conservatism by undermining local and national identities in favor of emphasizing the ummah, or global Muslim community.
In my understanding of the world, Islamism can be likened to the Muslim world's equivalent of acquiring a Lamborghini. The poor may view it as impractical or unattainable, and those with old money might consider it cringe-worthy or low status. However, the emerging middle class often holds Islamism in high regard, seeing it as a symbol of status and identity.
2. the rich Gulf States suddenly start secularizing and socially liberalizing
Most Muslim countries are poor and/or war torn. A lot of Muslims around the world look up to the Gulf States as the few very rich, very safe Muslim countries. Arabia is also the origin of Islam so Arabs get an automatic prestige bump. The rich Gulf States are very conservative and have historically funded ultra conservative Islam and Islamism around the world. I suspect a lot of poor Muslims from dangerous countries think "if only we were as Islamic as the Gulf States, our country would be as rich and safe."
I thought that when I was younger and to an extent that might happen as oil revenues dry up. But how do you explain British and European born Muslims turning to Islamism in the 2000s? Most of the Islamists came from middle class families. European born Muslims typically have more insane opinions than their immigrant parents.
Could it be resentment that their parents “had” to immigrate away from the homeland?
“If only the old country had been more Islamic, then things would be safe, clean, and perfect, mom and dad wouldn't’ve emigrated and I wouldn’t need to deal with being Muslim in a kuffar land and being brown/black in a white country.”
Hindus don't have the religious imperialism aspect but there are 2nd and 3rd generation Indians in western countries who overly romanticize India and believe that if colonialism had never happened India would be a utopia.
They might they say a lot of things but they aren't importing their lifestyle to the west in any meaningful way. Although Ayurveda might change that in the future.
I think people often misunderstand the causality when they argue that economic growth leads to cultural liberalization. As you mentioned, there is an honor-income trade-off, which suggests that cultural liberalization might actually be a precursor to economic growth.
Claiming that economic growth causes cultural liberalization is akin to arguing that economic growth leads to deregulation. This perspective overlooks the potential for cultural shifts to drive economic changes, rather than the other way around.
In Britain you focused on Muslim immigrants from Bangladesh/Pakistan. But there are also Hindu/Sikh immigrants from India there. I was curious how their experience differs.
There should also be a comparison with Indian Muslims, as I suspect there is a class based nature as Bangladeshi/Pakistanis are poorer, while Indian Muslims are a bit wealthier like Hindu/Sikhs
I wonder if you consider how does your writing affect an already polarised along the lines of 'multiculturalism' climate in England and elsewhere in Europe. With common news about anti-migration riots and grooming gangs, maybe it is worthwile to drop the 'objective scientist just showing data' style and try spin a personal narrative trying to foster attitudes that help people from different backgrounds get along peacefully.
Absolutely fascinating, and worrisome. Isn't there a finding in WEIRD about people from high kinship societies being more likely to feel shame than guilt, which is more common where kinship is low? Seems connected.
Interesting that the initial level and decrease in arranged marriage in Sri Lanka is so different to the rest of South Asia. Any ideas why? I’d have expected it to be much more similar to India than the SEA countries on the same graph.
The notion that economic growth will lead to the liberalization of Muslim communities has not materialized as some might have expected. You mentioned how British Muslims traditionally married within their extended kin network or with individuals from their country of origin, and later began marrying other Muslims. While this shift might appear to be a form of cultural liberalization on the surface, it may not be the case. Instead, it could reflect the increasing influence of Islamist ideology, which differs from cultural conservatism by undermining local and national identities in favor of emphasizing the ummah, or global Muslim community.
In my understanding of the world, Islamism can be likened to the Muslim world's equivalent of acquiring a Lamborghini. The poor may view it as impractical or unattainable, and those with old money might consider it cringe-worthy or low status. However, the emerging middle class often holds Islamism in high regard, seeing it as a symbol of status and identity.
I suspect Islamism will only lose its shine if
1. the rich Gulf States suddenly become poor
2. the rich Gulf States suddenly start secularizing and socially liberalizing
Most Muslim countries are poor and/or war torn. A lot of Muslims around the world look up to the Gulf States as the few very rich, very safe Muslim countries. Arabia is also the origin of Islam so Arabs get an automatic prestige bump. The rich Gulf States are very conservative and have historically funded ultra conservative Islam and Islamism around the world. I suspect a lot of poor Muslims from dangerous countries think "if only we were as Islamic as the Gulf States, our country would be as rich and safe."
I thought that when I was younger and to an extent that might happen as oil revenues dry up. But how do you explain British and European born Muslims turning to Islamism in the 2000s? Most of the Islamists came from middle class families. European born Muslims typically have more insane opinions than their immigrant parents.
Could it be resentment that their parents “had” to immigrate away from the homeland?
“If only the old country had been more Islamic, then things would be safe, clean, and perfect, mom and dad wouldn't’ve emigrated and I wouldn’t need to deal with being Muslim in a kuffar land and being brown/black in a white country.”
I guess but you don't see the same pattern amongst Hindus
Hindus don't have the religious imperialism aspect but there are 2nd and 3rd generation Indians in western countries who overly romanticize India and believe that if colonialism had never happened India would be a utopia.
They might they say a lot of things but they aren't importing their lifestyle to the west in any meaningful way. Although Ayurveda might change that in the future.
I think people often misunderstand the causality when they argue that economic growth leads to cultural liberalization. As you mentioned, there is an honor-income trade-off, which suggests that cultural liberalization might actually be a precursor to economic growth.
Claiming that economic growth causes cultural liberalization is akin to arguing that economic growth leads to deregulation. This perspective overlooks the potential for cultural shifts to drive economic changes, rather than the other way around.
You are unbelievably prolific and insightful.
Such a great choice of questions and research taste.
In Britain you focused on Muslim immigrants from Bangladesh/Pakistan. But there are also Hindu/Sikh immigrants from India there. I was curious how their experience differs.
There should also be a comparison with Indian Muslims, as I suspect there is a class based nature as Bangladeshi/Pakistanis are poorer, while Indian Muslims are a bit wealthier like Hindu/Sikhs
Learned a lot, thanks for sharing!
This reminds me of a post I wrote: I carried her like a hymn no one else could hear.She was never mine to keep. https://thehiddenclinic.substack.com/p/a-field-note
I wonder if you consider how does your writing affect an already polarised along the lines of 'multiculturalism' climate in England and elsewhere in Europe. With common news about anti-migration riots and grooming gangs, maybe it is worthwile to drop the 'objective scientist just showing data' style and try spin a personal narrative trying to foster attitudes that help people from different backgrounds get along peacefully.
Absolutely fascinating, and worrisome. Isn't there a finding in WEIRD about people from high kinship societies being more likely to feel shame than guilt, which is more common where kinship is low? Seems connected.
Interesting that the initial level and decrease in arranged marriage in Sri Lanka is so different to the rest of South Asia. Any ideas why? I’d have expected it to be much more similar to India than the SEA countries on the same graph.